Sunday, 21 February 2016

Talking about fertility again, part 2

Here is part 2 of the contemplation I started a few days ago regarding possible ways of expanding our family. Apparently I ended that post on a cliffhanger. As I said in one comment, these questions have been rattling around in my head for so long I kind of forget everyone doesn't already know about them.

I recently had a few standard medical tests (hormone levels, pelvic ultrasound, and bone density scan) to check on how my POF is affecting my fertility and general health. I should have the results of those in a week or two. Meanwhile, we've started a conversation about what exactly we will consider to have a second child.

We may or may not be able to get pregnant again without intervention. Will the tests I just had, or hypothetical future tests, answer that question definitively? Who knows!  We thought two years ago we had a definitive answer, and then the unexpected happened. Pondering the chances of another conception without intervention feels like wandering around in a fog that sometimes recedes, then thickens and blocks everything from view. The next question feels like an amorphous shape looming in the fog, a stranger that I'm not sure I should approach or not.

If donor egg IVF (DEIVF) is our only chance to have another child, do we want to go for it?

Or, re-phrased as a negative: If DEIVF is our only chance to have another child, are we OK with not doing it?

Back when we were deciding what treatments we were willing to pursue, Mr. Turtle and I did an analysis of our priorities using the 8 factors listed in in the chapter "Planning Your Itinerary" in Melissa Ford's book Navigating the Land of IF.  I love this book! As Mel says "This chapter will provide you with the practical tools you need to be as strategic as possible in making decisions during your stay in the land of IF." Just reading the words "strategy" and "practical tools" I can feel the anxiety ebbing out of me like a big receding wave.

Here are the eight factors:

  • cost
  • certainty of reaching parenthood
  • sureness of leaving infertility
  • possibility of a genetic link
  • possibility of a biological link
  • amount of control over prenatal health
  • average speed of resolving infertility
  • importance of maternal age
Mel suggests that parents each rank these factors based on importance to them, and then compare their priorities, so that is what we did in 2013. We had the same top two priorities: Certainty of reaching parenthood, and amount of control over prenatal health. On number three we were different but subtly similar: Mr. Turtles's 3rd top factor was possibility of a genetic link, and mine was importance of maternal age.

Based on our top priorities of control over prenatal health, and certainty of reaching parenthood, we preferred DEIVF (or embryo adoption) over adoption as a Plan B (plan A being conception of a child with our genetic material).

So, what if anything has changed now?

Control over prenatal health is still a priority. If it's me that's pregnant, I know I can do everything in my power to provide for a healthy pregnancy.

Importance of a genetic link, this is a tough one. Before AJ's birth I didn't rank this too highly. It certainly was more important to me that I got to be pregnant and give birth to the baby than to be genetically related. Also, the narrative seemed straightforward enough: we want a child, my eggs don't work, so we use a donor. Insofar as these things are in any way straightforward. But now that we have a child genetically related to both of is, it feels more complicated.

I'm not exactly worried about feeling that a child conceived via donor isn't "mine." It's the subtler things.  See, AJ is not just my genetically related child, she's (TRIGGER WARNING: SMUG PARENT) such a perfectly perfect awesome child. She's healthy, beautiful, smart, sociable, affectionate, easy-going, eats well, teethes well and she (mostly) sleeps well. She's on the late side of normal for her gross motor development, but who cares. It's not just us; all our extended family and friends adore her and rave about how perfect and special she is. I know, I know: we'll have to cool it at some point so AJ doesn't become an entitled little narcissistic brat. Or maybe she will make it easy for us by turning into a terror at her next developmental stage. 

But for now, I wonder: Suppose we have another child with an egg donor, and he/she is colicky, or anxious, or aggressive, or stays up all night, or has a developmental issue, or _______ (fill in the blank). As I stumble about in a haze of parental self-doubt, will I start to compare them, thinking thoughts like "I wonder if it's because _______ has somebody else's genes." Not that I think I have such amazing genes that I'm guaranteed to have perfect children every time. But will I credit the donor gamete part for differences or challenges, and start perhaps unconsciously to treat the children differently?

Then there's extended family. Since we would definitely choose to be open about using a donor, would our extended family treat the child differently? Would AJ be perceived as more.....special, more "one of us?" I really hope not, but the thought makes me cringe. On the other hand, I would hope that most thinking people understand that genetics are not the basis of relationship. Probably the best example of this is Nana, one of AJ's 3 grandmothers. Nana is my father-in-law's second wife, so she is not a blood relation to AJ. But she is in no way less of a grandmother than my mom or Mr. Turtle's mom. I actually saw her handle the matter of relatedness beautifully on one occasion. We were visiting her store, and one of her friends made a comment on how AJ resembles her. "Isn't it great how these things work out even when there's no genetic connection," she said, without a trace of discomfort or judgment in her voice. I hope I have her cool and presence of mind one day.

Then there's the whole matter of sibling relationship. Mr. Turtle and I have good sibling relationships, so again we'd like to assume that our children would too, but there's no way to know. Again, would the matter of genetics become something that divides them? I would like to think no, if we handle the matter responsibly as parents. And who knows, perhaps in their daily lives they will meet other children who have a similar family story, and it won't be that unusual or uncomfortable at all. But for now I wonder if I have a right to introduce that kind of complexity into AJ's life and the life of a hypothetical sibling, or more bluntly, if it's simply a bad idea.

Mr. Turtle interestingly did not seem to have the same misgivings about a donor gamete situation that I have. One might think that's because he would maintain his genetic link, but then he reminded me that we might even have to use donor sperm. He acknowledged that my concerns are real, and his comment was that if I think something is likely to happen, then I increase its likelihood of happening. If I think "I can be on an plane to a warm tropical beach" then it instantly becomes more likely that I will be on a plane to a warm tropical beach in the future. (Note to self: put that theory to the test.) But less happily, if I think: I will treat my children differently because of their genes, then it's more likely to happen.  He also noted that he's seen how doubts about paternity (different situations, obviously) can be very corrosive in a family, and lead even on a sub-conscious level, to fathers treating children differently. And the relationship problems continue even if paternity is proven. The basic theme of his comments was: If you start a pattern of behaviour in a family, for whatever reason, it can be very difficult to change. Overall, however, Mr. Turtle said he would be happy to have a child via gamete donation.

But following that theme, Mr. Turtle also said that he would not want to adopt a child, because he did not feel that he could show the same level of affection to an adopted child as he does to AJ. This surprised me a little, partly because we have never seriously discussed adoption, but also because in my mind adoption is in a completely different category from fertility treatment. I would need a very different mindset to adopt and build a relationship with an adopted child than I have to give birth to a child, by whatever process. I actually think I worry less about comparing a hypothetical adopted child to AJ, because the way that each child came into our lives would be so different, that there wouldn't be the same temptation to compare and contrast. It goes to show how subjective these matters are, but paradoxically how real in the way they could manifest in the way family members treat each other. 

Finally, I'm not sure how much of this is the anxiety that any parent might feel about adding a sibling to the family, even if the process didn't involve fertility treatment or differences in genetic inheritance. It seems not uncommon for parents to worry that a sibling with negatively impact the first child, or that they couldn't possibly love the second child as much, etc. But from what I can tell, in reasonably happy and functional families these things mostly work out.

Apart from the concerns about sibling relatedness and family dynamics, there are other issues complicating my feelings about DEIVF.

Cost: This wasn't a huge concern to Mr. Turtle and I before AJ's birth.  Faced with big bills for fertility treatments, our attitude was, "We only live once," and the possibility of a child was absolutely worth a major investment. But now that we have a child to support, I see things differently. We have respectable savings, seniority at work, and our public sector jobs in the supposedly essential fields of health and education seem secure. But there's always a "but." Our generally prosperous province is experiencing an economic downturn. People are being laid off all around us. Businesses are struggling. Our recently elected leftist government is nominally on the side of the public service, but that's not much help if they bankrupt the province or make our professional lives living hell with some ill-conceived restructuring scheme.

Faced with uncertainty (the in-your-face kind, as opposed to the kind that is always there), or even just contemplating our responsibilities to AJ, I feel much less easy about spending thousands of dollars on something that may or may not work. That money is also our child's future, her security. AJ can grow up without tons of material possessions (I did), but there are things I feel we absolutely must give her: quality life experiences, healthy family relationships, and high quality education, including post secondary. Money can't buy all those things, but some of them it can, and mom and dad should have sound financial plans so they avoid quarreling about money, as much as possible.

On the other hand, we do only live once. And maybe The Fertility Clinic is also feeling a bit of the economic crunch and will feel just that little bit more obligated to give us great service.

Lastly, if we do DEIVF there's always the chance that we will complete our family and still have embryos left over. The question of unused embryos sitting in storage (or disposed of via other means) was always the part of IVF that made me the most uncomfortable. Due to the POF, it was always extremely unlikely we would have surplus embryos if we did IVF with our own gametes, so as we moved through the process I didn't worry much about potential unused embryos. As it turned out of course, we didn't make any embryos with IVF. But with donor eggs, maybe we'd get a lot. How would I feel in that situation? I can be cynical and calculating about a great many things, but about embryos that are potential babies? Paying cash for a service is one thing; paying with a piece of a tiny soul is something else again.

So here we go again.

If donor egg IVF (DEIVF) is our only chance to have another child, do we want to go for it?

If DEIVF is our only chance to have another child, are we OK with not doing it?

I'm not sure.


  1. Wow, that's a lot to think about. I'm not sure if I'll ever be able to adopt, but honestly, I never worry about treating my kids differently. I think it's because I read so many adoption blogs and lots of those people have a mix of bio/adopted kids and it's just so normal for them, that it became normal for me. Maybe if you started reading blogs of people in a similar situation (or even adoption blogs) you might worry less. Or maybe not... I don't know, just a thought!

    I really hope that whatever happens for you and your family that you are all happy and content :)

    1. Thanks. I agree, a mix of children with different origin stories can seem like a big deal or not, depending how one looks at it. I guess I fetl like I have to consider worst case scenarios to be thorough? The optimist in me always wants to believe that love prevails (assuming a basically ethical situation to begin with, for sure. I would be happy to read more blogs about families built in multiple ways; feel free to make suggestions of email me or FB message. Thanks for reading.

  2. These are all weighty, but good questions. Like Aramis posted on your previous post, I've had the opposite thought, that if I were to get pregnant naturally it would some how make Ayan feel less than. But since it's so far beyond what could happen, I don't even worry about it (this is so far beyond the realm of possibilities, and I don't say that with a wink, wink, nudge, nudge. No sperm means no baby).

    I have one little piece of anecdotal evidence. One of the midwives at my OB/GYN practice had a bio baby and then a baby via embryo donation, and she said that there was absolutely no difference in her feelings, she had concerns, but her love for her DE(mbryo) baby was immediate, nor were there any differences in how her family reacted.

    You've heard this a thousand times from a thousand DE mamas, but I can't imagine loving any baby more than I love Ayan. And you think AJ is perfect--you should meet Ayan ;-). I'm so grateful everyday for this baby, and each one of those donated gametes. And you would be, too. You and Mr. Turtle are too thoughtful and too loving to feel anything but pure and all encompassing love for baby #2.

    These are real concerns that need to be thought through, but if you get to the other side and feel like DE is the way to go, I have no doubt that you won't feel any less about your DE baby than you do about AJ.

    1. Thanks for your perspective and kind words! I can feel the love and peace come through in your words and it does help me to feel more confident we can make the right decision. I an 100% ok with all our babies being tied for first place most perfect baby hahaha!

  3. That is a lot to think about!! But it sounds like you have a strategy to wade through it all and that will hopefully help you get some answers. It is interesting how subjective so much of it is! But you and Mr Turtle seem to have great communication so at least you know where each other stands!

    1. I hope so too. Good communication is very important. We think we know each other well but it's important to set aside time to talk as we can still surprise each other.

  4. Wow, you are very, very thorough in exploring all your options. No one can ever say you took the decision lightly! I think you make good points, and I echo the thoughts of those above that so many people have concerns and those are valid concerns, but when the baby is born somehow those concerns seem not so...concerning. I worry about two children with adoption, as well, because if they have different birth parents they could have different contact situations and how do you explain that? Even though the parenting would be the same from us, they might not have the same links to their origins, and that would be difficult. So we think about enjoying our one (theoretical) perfect child. I think reading those recommended blogs that you'll get and talking to more people who have created their families from multiple modes will be helpful, but ultimately you do what's right for you, for Mr. Turtle, and for AJ. I love how thoughtful you are in this very difficult decision, and I'm just sorry that you have to think on all this, that IF makes everything so damn complex. Thinking of you as you search your heart and come to peace with whatever decision you make!

    1. Thanks for the kind words. Thorough.....yeah that, or obsessive haha. You are probably right that once the real child is born the concerns are not as concerning. Although I think the complexity of multiple origins would become more a factor later in the children's lives, rather than when they are babies. Which is not to say a stable and loving family wouldn't mean a lot. I imagine that is the hope of all families built through adoption, donor gamete, blending, etc. Still the conservative side of me is a bit dubious of participating in what does feel like a fairly new social experiment. I guess this new situation has led me to confront more of those feelings, because it's not exactly as straightforward as using donor gamete or being childless.

  5. I have no wise words to add. I had a lot of these thoughts myself, when we were considering options. All I can say is that whatever you decide, it will be right for you and your family.

    Also, I suspect once you decide you will feel comfortable with that decision, as it is human nature (I think) to justify our decisions and make them right, rather than to live in concern and regret. And that's a good thing!

    1. Ha, you are certainly right that we justify ourselves, and an adorable baby makes it even easier to justify. I don't think I could ever regret bringing a child into the world because I know I would love him/her and I believe every life has value. I just worry about complications down the road. Or at least, I have to imagine them to assess the measure of my courage and resolve.

  6. Impressive write up of many of the thoughts going through your head right now. I think that even without fertility issues parents commonly have a clearing out and mental prep phase before building a family so some of this is "normal." But there is no way around all the added complications and no definitive answers. One thing I know for sure is that you have plenty of love to give and I'm sure AJ would be accepting of any sibling because of they way you are raising her.

    1. Aw, thanks! That's a very kind and uplifting comment. Yes, based on AJ's personality so far I think she would be very happy with a sibling, however it happened. Facing up to a lack of control of knowledge of the future is definitely a factor here. Choosing donor does feel like exerting willpower (desire for a child) over fate (infertility) and so I think I also feel that by doing so I am somehow more responsible for anything that might go wrong in the future.

  7. There is so very much to think about. I hadn't seen that list you shared about your priorities and will check out that book. I think those are really good questions. When we talked about DEIVF, I found my husband cared a great deal about the genetic aspect. I did, too, but less so. So many things to think about...

    1. I know! While I don't necessarily think there are universally "right" answers, I do think that consensus within a family is very important and that should mean unpacking anxieties that maybe we don't talk about all the time, or maybe that we even think we shouldn't have (but do). Mel's book is awesome!